Ancient Gear Engineer

Negate the effect of any Trap Card that targets this card, and destroy that Trap Card. If this card attacks, your opponent cannot activate any Spell or Trap Cards until the end of the Damage Step. When this card attacks, destroy 1 Spell or Trap Card on your opponent's side of the field at the end of the Damage Step.

i was just wondering, say my opp had a call of the haunted on a mobius in attack mode, and i attack it with my engineer, would my engineer already be in the graveyard since it says at the end of the damage step i can destroy a magic or trap on there field, or would i still be able to destory call of the haunted , then my engineer goes to graveyard

A very good question and one that could be easily justified either way actually.

If you look at Kevin Tewart's Damage Step chart (the very first post on the judge's list) you'd find according to it that the effects of monster who's effect activates "at the end of the damage step" is carried out after the portion of the damage step where monsters are sent to the graveyard....so according to that Ancient Gear Engineer's effect wouldn't work if destroyed in the damage step.....

HOWEVER...

According to the rulings on Legendary Jujitsu Master....

If "Legendary Jujitsu Master" is destroyed, removed from play, or flipped face-down by the effect of the monster he battles with, "Legendary Jujitsu Master"'s effect is still applied and the monster is returned to the top of the Deck.

Now when you compare that with the text of Ancient Gear Engineer...

Text :

Negate the effect of any Trap Card that targets this card, and destroy that Trap Card. If this card attacks, your opponent cannot activate any Spell or Trap Cards until the end of the Damage Step. When this card attacks, destroy 1 Spell or Trap Card on your opponent's side of the field at the end of the Damage Step.

You can see that both cards trigger before the end of the damage step. Ledgendary Jujitsu Master when it's attacked in def. postion and Ancient Gear Engineer when it attacks.

Due to their similar text I'd rule (at this point not having a written ruling on it) that Ancient Gear Engineer would destroy COTH even though Ancient Gear Engineer is considered destroyed itself (and technically, according to the damage step chart, already in the graveyard)

Does it make a whole lot of sense? Well, not to me, not right now, I'm going to do some further study on the subject and I'll get back with you. Thank you for bringing it up....going on these little "hunts" for ruling information and mechanics is how I learn the most!

I think the fact that Ancient Gear Engineer has to select a card to target would require it to remain face up on the field for its effect to still be activated and Legendary Jujitsu Master doesn't select a specific target so what happens to it doesn't matter. Im like 90% sure that Ancient Gear Engineer has to survive the battle in order for it to use its effect.

That's possible, however, from the sound of the effect text the target would be named when Ancient Gear Engineer attacks (notice the effect text bolded) So as with other cards that target at one point and their effect is carried out at a later point I don't see Ancient Gear Engineer needing to be face p on the field at resolution.

Text
Negate the effect of any Trap Card that targets this card, and destroy that Trap Card. If this card attacks, your opponent cannot activate any Spell or Trap Cards until the end of the Damage Step. When this card attacks, destroy 1 Spell or Trap Card on your opponent's side of the field at the end of the Damage Step.

The real question here is when does AEG target the S/T card it intends to destroy? Armed with that information the answer to the question is easy.

I'll do some more reasearch, for having such a confusing and unusual effect text I'm surprised they didn't clarify it a bit with some rulings....or I'm just over complicating this card....which I hope I am, I'll get back to you.

The more I've been studying AGE the more I believe it doesn't have to be face up on the field to destroy a S/T card.

When I search RONIN for monsters that have "...at the end of the battle phase" in their card text, the only monsters that need to remain face up on the field in order to apply their effect are the monsters that do something to themselves (Spear Dragon turning to def. position for example) All other monsters needn't be face up on the field for their effect to resolve.

With that in mind, until I'm informed from an official source differently, I'll be ruling it as such...needn't be face up on the field to destroy a S/T card at the end of the battle phase.

*EDIT*

I just recieved word back from Curtis that the question of weather AGE needs to be face up on the field to resolve it's effect has been submited to Konami and awaits response...so it appears we're not the only ones with doubts.

Though it appears to be terribly inconsistant with similar card effects. It came across on the judge's list that AGE needs to remain face up on the field at the end of the damage step in order for it to get it's effect of destroying a S/T card....I'd like to hear the reasoning behind that one.....though I suspect it would be a BKSS situation.